The better of the large, than the small

Class Forums Government 2017-2018- Assignment 4 The better of the large, than the small

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    • #1323

      luke
      Participant

      If someone were to condense Plato’s idea of justice into one sentence, it would no doubt look something like “Everything doing its part.” So think for instance of an engine, The piston goes down and returns back to the combustion chamber in which fuel, oxygen, and spark are necessary for the combustion that pushes the piston back down to turn the crankshaft. If one of these components does not do its purpose then the piston will not be pushed back down after returning from rotating the crankshaft. Say that the spark plug is burnt out, you would remove this part and replace it with a new one. Plato has a similar way of thought of the state, if one part of the state is hindering the state it should be removed and replaced. This system is, however, applied to the people as well, as for example if someone grows too old to continue to benefit the state, then they are removed. If a child is born into the state and is unable to benefit the state, then they are removed. Plato comes back to the fact that it is for the benefit of the state, not the individual. Now, some people see this idea as cruel, cold, and heartless, however, it cannot be denied that it does make sense. Furthermore, it must be remembered that the state is symbolizing your soul. Meaning that if you find something that hinders your soul within your soul then it must be removed for the benefit of the entirety of your soul. Plato is not the only one to recommend this as it is also found in the Bible passage Matthew 5:30 “And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.”

    • #1325

      luke
      Participant

      I would like to address that I do not affirm Plato’s idea of removal in the state, but only in the soul. In my previous argument, it could be interpreted that I affirm all of Plato’s ideas which I did not intend.

    • #1340

      lizzie
      Participant

      If I interpreted it correctly, I disagree with Luke’s statement that Plato’s idea to rid of those harming the city or of part of a city that hinders the whole is not just. As addressed in Abby’s argument about the justice of criminal imprisonment, it is just to remove people who hinder the city because it helps them learn that their actions are unjust and help them become more just which is loving. With consequences, justice will come. Though it is out of fear, many will avoid acting destructively towards the city because they have seen the consequences that those who hinder the city face, and thus, they will learn to act justly and love justice. The same is true for removing a part hindering the whole city.

    • #1347

      shelby
      Participant

      If you are asserting that it is just to remove those who are weak in society, then I would disagree. We are called to help those who are helpless, feed the hungry, and clothe the naked. If Jesus Christ was able to clean the dirty feet of some people who are in the worlds eyes considered less than note worthy, if he would speak with the leper and cleanse him of his disease, if he would take on our flesh and be born in an animals stable, shouldn’t we care for those who are weak and little. God dose not work through the strong and mighty but through the weak and unseen. “Religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world. (James 1:27)”

    • #1349

      abigail
      Participant

      I think Luke was arguing from the standpoint of Plato’s idea of justice, not from the Christians point of view. I could, however, be wrong.

    • #1358

      cqpittard01
      Participant

      If you are saying that Plato and the Bible share the concept of “removing” someone who is harmful or even not directly benefiting society, I would have to disagree. Plato said that it is best to kill those who do not benefit society and the Bible does not say that at all. Psalm 82:3-4 says “Give justice to the weak and fatherless; maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute. Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked.” We are called to help those who are less fortunate and care for those who cannot care for themselves, not kill them or cast them out. You referenced Matthew 5:30, which seems to agree with Plato’s assertions about the city. But this passage is talking about sinners, not those who are weak and needy, like what Plato was saying. I do not believe that Plato’s ideas concerning how to maintain a just city or soul coincide with the Bible, as you seem to suggest.

    • #1360

      luke
      Participant

      I seem to have confused all of you and I thought I corrected this in my edit but what I am affirming is that if you find something deficient for your soul then it must be removed and I was using Plato’s example of removing things from the state as an example of what you need to do in your own soul if anything deficient is found within it.

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